October 23, 2017

Monday Open Thread: The Black Madonna and Child


(Photo Credit: Arf-Int.net/Gyles Facebook Photo Album)

This week’s series will take a look at The Black Virgin Mary. It was inspired by a convo between Aquagranny, AxelFoley, Isonprize, TyrenM and myself about the depiction of the Virgin Mary and Jesus as Black in various parts of the world. 

First, a brief historical background on the evolution of Isis to the Virgin Mary.

From “Black Madonnas of Europe: Diffusion of the African Isis” in African Presence in Early Europe:

“The Attributes and titles which catapulted the Virgin Mary into the realm of goddesshood were borrowed from the African Isis . Legends recounted her eternal devotion to her son and life-long fidelity to God. An appellation mater domina, used in association with the African Isis, survives in the form “Madonna.” Titles of the Virgin which include, “The Madonna,” “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” “The Great Mother,” and “Our Lady are the same titles attributed to the African Isis  long before the existence of Christianity.

Images of the Virgin Mary and Child proliferated after the Council of Ephesus. Cyril, major proponent for the elevation of the Virgin Mary, had spent the larger years of his life in Egypt. He was very familiar with representations of the African goddess Isis suckling Horus. This served as the prototype for the images of the Virgin Mary.

…Many anthropologists attribute the blackness of the European Madonnas to their fertility quality, with black representing the earth. Another theory attributes the blackness to extreme age or smoke from candles, but no explanation is given why only the hands, face and feet were affected. Unquestionably, all so-called “Black Madonnas” are not actually black. The skin tones range in various shades of light brown to very black, the same variations seen in the skin pigmentation of people of African ancestry. The European Black Madonnas demonstrate the diffusion of the African Isis into that continent. This diffusion can be investigated through the early development of Byzantine Christian iconography; and the adoption by the European Orthodox Christians of various Black goddesses to represent the Virgin Mary.

…The Black Madonnas of Europe have a tradition which goes back hundreds of years, before the advent of Christianity. The African Isis was prototype for the Black Madonnas of Europe. As the worship of Isis was suppressed, the Virgin Mary was elevated into the European Christendom. The African Isis was worshipped under the name of the Virgin Mary. But the images most venerated and held in highest esteem, are those most similar in depiction of the African Isis. Isis is best remembered through the images of the Black Madonna.” 


From “The History of Black Virgin Marys” by J.A. Rogers:

Two of the oldest black Madonnas of Europe are those of Loretto, Italy, and of Nuria, Spain. The first is said to be the original of all the Black Virgins. It was destroyed by fire about 1930 and was restored by Pope Pius XI who, according to Father Ledit, ordered “the color preserved.” The Black Virgin of Nuria, which is called “The Queen of the Pyrenees” is distinctly Negro.






  • GN

    Now I can tell my grand-babies “the first black president’s second inauguration was on Martin Luther the King Day.” #comingtoamericatweets

    @eclecticbrotha PBO is a person of destiny! Recall that his Denver Speech to accept the 2008 nomination was on anniversary of I Have A Dream

    Some of my family is going to DC, but I’m taking the day off and watching the Inauguration peacefully at home. Truly a momentous occasion.

    • Miranda

      Its divine. Not merely a coincidence. I believe that.

    • rikyrah

      I put into the office the day off pretty much the week after the election. Then, my supervisor came back and said that we already had the day off. When I realized it was MLK Day….it was one of those things that make you go ‘ hmmmmm’…how fate works out that way.

      • TyrenM

        Yes ma’am. Sing Sing Celebrate!

  • Miranda

    I love this series! Those pics are awesome.

  • Miranda

    ___________________________why didn’t y’all tell me bout this Isaac Hayes classic?

    Mistletoe & Me

  • Jeremy

    You know the PL and emo- progressives continue to show that they know little about history and politics. Just like when they complain about the president borrowing old republican ideas like an individual mandate, or cap and trade. But president Obama isn’t the only president to borrow ideas from the other side. George W. Bush who was conservative took a long held democratic idea- Medicare part D program and one the was embraced by moderate-liberal republicans back in the day. And he increased federal government supervision and authority through No child left behind. These things are not supported by the far right but just because Bush borrowed a few Democratic ideas does not make him a Democrat. Every president has compromised or borrowed a few good ideas from the other side. Some on the left need get real and start dealing with facts.

    • crazycanuck

      Don’t trust him either. Why couldn’t the President pick someone else, sigh.

    • GN

      Both the far right and the emo left try to hold this POTUS to a standard to which no other US President has ever been held. They think no one sees this, but they are very wrong.

      Emos are easily swayed and played for fools by the Professional Left, whose agenda is to get attention, power and money via sensations/hysteria and not necessarily to see liberals in power (ex: 2010, when the PL led emo liberals to make the catastrophic choice of disdaining HCR, stimulus, etc. and to empower regressives).

      As far as I’m concerned, these are the very LAST people (both the PL and their credulous emo boutique audiences) worthy of anyone giving a flying sliver of a rat’s ass what they “think” about President Obama’s negotiation tactics. Precisely because they will never get real and will stay fact-free. Fuck these people. Were it up to them, we’d have no HCR, no economy-saving stimulus, etc. because these reforms were supposedly not “pure” enough for people who make no concessions whatsoever to reality. President Obama seems to value them because he sees value in everyone, but to me? They can kiss my black ass, I’m not that spiritually evolved lol.

      • nathkatun7

        Bravo, GN! I totally share your sentiments. I am absolutely convinced that the PL, just like the right wingers and most in the corporate media, did not want to see President Obama re-elected. They can pout and throw tantrums all they want, but, in the end, the President’s re-election exposed their irrelevancy. As far as I am concerned, the purity progressives, led by the PL, are nothing but paper tigers.

    • GreenLadyHere

      Good Christmas EVE MornToin’ -Jeremy. ***BIG HUG*** :>)

      THIS! –>Every president has compromised or borrowed a few good ideas from the other side. Some on the left need get real and start dealing with facts. — – -HAH!



      ANALYSIS? – – -WHAT’S DAT??? – -LOL.

      Good 2 C U Jeremy. :>)

      • Jeremy

        Thanks ! It’s good to see you and Merry Christmas !

        • GreenLadyHere

          ***SMILES*** at-choo :>)

  • Miranda

    The Daily Edge ‏@TheDailyEdge
    Paul Ryan: “I tried to use my enormous clout to rally GOP members behind Boehner’s Plan B. Unfortunately we lost because of the urban vote”

  • Miranda

    *points and laughs at GOP*

    House Republicans Circulate Plan to Oust Boehner from Speakership

    Several conservative House Republican members are contemplating a plan to unseat Speaker John Boehner from his position on January 3, Breitbart News has exclusively learned. Staffers have compiled a detailed action plan that, if executed, could make this a reality.

    The Republicans, both conservatives and more establishment members alike, are emboldened after the failure of Boehner’s fiscal cliff “Plan B” on Thursday evening. Dissatisfaction with Boehner is growing in the House Republican conference, but until now there hasn’t been a clear path forward.

    Those members and staffers requested anonymity from Breitbart News at this time to prevent retaliation from Boehner similar to what happened to those four members who were purged from their powerful committee assignments a few weeks ago. Their expressed concern is that if Boehner knew who they were, his adverse reaction toward them would be much more brutal than losing committee assignments, such as a primary challenge in 2014 by a leadership-sponsored candidate.

    • jds09

      Oh my goodness….these guys need a “secret ballot” to do this. They have the “stones” to take a hammer to the middle class and threaten the world economy but they are afraid of Orange Julius. LMAO.

    • They don’t have the votes.

    • Admiral_Komack

      Who will they nominate in his place, Nathan Bedford Forrest?

      • conlakappa

        Googly-eyed Bachmann. In today’s WashPost front-page article on whither the Tea Party, hers was the only rep name given in a photo though she was standing next to Gomert. She’s made an attempt at the power grab before. Her party gets to show how it’s not anti-woman, throws red meat to the conservatives, and outs the orange one. Winning all around.

  • GreenLadyHere
  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – –NO KIDDIN’!??? – – LOL – —

    — –Party of Nothing – – —

    – — –Mark McKinnon says it is becoming clear that the Republican party “is against everything and for nothing.”

    “Nothing on taxes. Nothing on gun control. Nothing on climate change. Nothing on gay marriage. Nothing on immigration reform (or an incremental, piece-by-piece approach, which will result in nothing). It’s a very odd situation when the losing party is the party refusing to negotiate. It may be how you disrupt, but it is not how you govern, or how you ever hope to regain a majority.”

    “And so, we have a Republican Party today willing to eliminate any prospect for a decent future for anyone, including itself, if it cannot be a future that is 100 percent in accordance with its core beliefs and principles. That’s not governing. That’s just lobbing hand grenades. If you’re only standing on principle to appear taller, then you appear smaller. And the GOP is shrinking daily before our eyes.”

    – — -Ooooweee! – – -LOL – — -THIS is a 10 BAND AID –SLAM!! –HAH! – —

    BTW: — – -WHAT took him Soooo LONG!?? — LOL – –

    • Admiral_Komack

      What was his first clue?

      • GreenLadyHere

        GOOD CHRISTMAS EVE MORNTIN’ -Admiral. ***BIG HUG*** :>)

        – – -***fist bump*** —LOL —-I KNOW-HUH? —LOL —

        Was it that 2008 Inaugural Day meetin’ where THEY DECLARED 2 make HIM —a –“1 TERM PRESIDENT!?”

        Annnnd THEY —TRIED erry “WEAPON” 2 do so! –

        –BUT — -THEY – -DI-ENT –WORK! – -HAH! – – –

        Good 2 C U [OUT annnd about] -Admiral! ***HUGS*** :>)

    • nellcote

      100 percent in accordance with its core beliefs and principles.
      And even that is bullshit. If PBO came out for all their pronounced “beliefs and principles” they’d vote against that too.

      • GreenLadyHere

        MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE nellcote. ***BIG HUG*** :>)

        – -U! – -AIN’T! NEVA! –LIED!! –LOL – – – Their 100% –CORE BELIEF: – –THEY R RACISTS who HATE MR. PRESIDENT annnd “ANYONE – -NOT LIKE THEM”!! – –

        WE KNOW!! geesh!!- —

        Good 2 C U nellcote♥. B BLESSED. :>)

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – –I keep geting an ERROR message annnd mini-♥ attacks. LOL.
    Am I the only one. THANKS. :>)

    • goldenstar

      You are NOT alone!

      • GreenLadyHere


        Whew Lawd! THANK U. :>)

        Good 2 C U :>) Have a Blessed day. :>)

    • nathkatun7

      Happy Christmas Eve, GLH! You are not alone. I’ve been having difficulty logging on.

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – -Mr. Harry – -Also “represented” at Sen. Inouye’s –MEMORIAL.: – —

    – — –Sen. Reid speaks at Inouye’s Punchbowl service — – –

    – – – – –Sen. Harry Reid spoke at Sunday’s memorial service at the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific at Punchbowl for Sen. Daniel K. Inouye.


  • rikyrah

    David Koch Now Taking Aim at Hurricane Sandy Victims
    Lee Fang on December 22, 2012 – 2:35 AM ET

    Billionaire David Koch’s prime political organization, Americans for Prosperity (AFP), having failed in its $125 million quest to oust President Barack Obama, is now aiming at a slightly less sophisticated political target: victims of Hurricane Sandy.

    Hurricane Sandy was the second most costly in American history, leaving 100 lives lost, over $50 billion in devastation and tens of thousands of damaged or destroyed homes. Legislative efforts to help those who survived Hurricane Sandy’s wrath will reach a major stumbling block.

    Earlier this week, AFP, which is chaired by Koch and believed to be financed by several other plutocrats from the New York City region, released a letter warning members of Congress not to vote for the proposed federal aid package for victims of the storm that swept New Jersey, New York City and much of the surrounding area in October. An announcement on the group’s website says that the vote next week for the Sandy aid package will be a “key vote”–meaning senators who support sending money for reconstruction could face an avalanche of attack ads in their next election. Already, opposition to the bill is growing, although it passed one procedural hurdle last night.

    There is some legitimate criticism with aspects of the legislation, including the fact that some of the money will go to non-Sandy related reconstruction efforts in disaster areas. For AFP, however, the whole bill must die and victims of the storm deserve no help from the government.

    Koch’s top deputy in New Jersey, a surly gentleman named Steve Lonegan, who heads the local AFP state chapter, called the aid package a “disgrace.” “This is not a federal government responsibility,” Lonegan told reporters. “We need to suck it up and be responsible for taking care of ourselves.”


    • Alma98

      WTF! These people are demons nothing but demons. I hope karma is swift and unrelenting when it comes for their slimy behinds. Is Mayor Bloomberg gonna have a press conference blasting these cretins? I don’t think so.

      • conlakappa

        Especially when he’s taking aim at a goodly number of voters who lean right politically. Koch needs a vacation. Or to find himself over or under a hooker, whatever his preference.

      • nathkatun7

        Nope! Bloomberg would rather grandstand attacking the President on gun control when he knows fully well that it’s the Congress, which is responsible for enacting gun control legislation.

    • Admiral_Komack

      TEABAGGERS: Compassion is for suckers.

  • Alma98

    Good morning all, I’ve been waiting on this series. I saw a program on PBS last week that mentioned the black Madonna. And here’s some sun cause it’s so freaking cold here lol.

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – -Guess it doesn’t hurt 2 – —GLOAT —LOL – —

    – – – –Romney Lost Because No One Liked Him – –

    – – – –The Boston Globe retrospective on the Romney campaign is not bad. It hits most of the marks on why Romney failed, from having to deal with a nutty primary season, to getting defined by Obama in the spring and summer, to failing to present a human side, to running a lousy and inefficient organization. But the real key to the campaign was that Romney is a jerk who no one likes and that he lies more than any human being on the planet. If I had a time machine and I could go back and run Romney’s campaign, I would hook him to an electrode and shock him every time he lied. Once he was cured of that, I’d tell him to talk about his family about 90% of the time.

    But the truth is that you can’t take a jerk and turn him into a nice guy.

    – — – –LOL. — I ‘ON’T think his family liked him –either. ***shakin’ my head*** –

    -I KNOW that –47% –of the population DID NOT! LOL

    • nathkatun7

      Mr. 47%, Mitt Romney, was really talking about himself when it came to 47% of the voters. It didn’t matter how many lies he told about himself and about the President, 47% of the people who hate President Obama still voted. The irony is Romney received 47% of the popular vote nationwide. As it turns out, he also received 47% of the total votes in the 12 swing states, and 47% of the total votes in the 38 non-swing sates. From now on I will always refer to him as “Mr.47%.”

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia —I keep lookin’ at that first PIC. – -DANG – -dey EVEN STOLE da MELANIN off STATUES!! – –
    –DESPERATE 2 –“WHITE WASH –HUH!? —***shakin’ my head*** :>)

  • Admiral_Komack

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
    If there is a four-alarm fire in The Bad Lounge, I haven’t gone to the Other Place;

    • BoomerGal

      To all of my brothers and sisters here in amurka and other parts of the world, MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR!! Who has CHITLINS??!!! LOL!!!

      • Miranda

        My auntie!!! LMAO

      • Alma98

        Merry Christmas and Happy New Year BoomerGal!

      • GreenLadyHere

        <O) – –


      • nathkatun7

        Waiting for New Year! I hope you and your family have a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year too!

  • Admiral_Komack

    Type your comment here.Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
    If there is a four-alarm fire in The Bad Lounge, I haven’t gone to the Other Place; it’s just that my Christmas gifts (switches & coal) got too close to the Yule Log.

    • Alma98

      Merry Christmas Admiral & Happy new Year! I think the lounge is ok it’s just diqus cutting up. If not we’ll find you a secondary location to go to lol.

    • GreenLadyHere

      LOL — -ADMIRAL – — –Fantasia – We Wish You A Merry Christmas – – – -B BLESSED – –ADMIRAL. ***HUGS** :>)

  • Admiral_Komack


  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – – -This SITE – –LOL – — -Is —GLOATIN’! – — LOL —

    — -☻Nerdy Wonka ‏@NerdyWonka
    Merry Christmas, GOP. RT @mckaycoppins That awkward moment when a Mormon Senator gets charged with a DUI. https://twitter.com/tewarren/status/283016944788058112
    View tweet

    – – – -☻Nerdy Wonka ‏@NerdyWonka
    Bc drinking brings out our best MT @JohnnieWalkerUS He’s always brought out the best in you. Bring out the best for him pic.twitter.com/3YTQpVow
    View photo

    – – –☻Lynn Lynn ‏@Illiter8
    .@NerdyWonka @mckaycoppins Can we pause for just a sec to reflect on how great the name ‘Crapo’ is? Weirdest Marx brother ever.

    – – – -GLOAT ON! LOL – –

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – -THIS was Sen. Inouye’s LAST WISH 4 a replacement.: – – –

    – – – –Will Abercrombie Grant Inouye’s Last Wish?– –

    – — –The day Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-HI) died, he sent a note to Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie (D) asking him to appoint Rep. Colleen Hanabusa (D-HI) to his seat, Honolulu Civil Beat reports.

    Inouye wrote. “I hope you will grant me my last wish.”

    “While this immediately shot Hanabusa to the top of the succession list, it also put Abercrombie in a tough spot. How could the governor not grant the dying wish of Hawaii’s most revered statesman? And if he doesn’t, what would be the political consequences?”

    — – –Colleen Hanabusa – –

    Watchin’. – —

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – -FOCUS on FIRST LADY♥ annnd “BO”♥ –LOL — –

    – – –The First Lady Reads “‘Twas The Night Before Christmas” – —

    -Awwwwwwww♥ —THIS is — -BEYOND ADORABLE!!♥– –


    – –[FOND MEMORY: MY DADDY MEMORIZED THIS annnd RECITED IT 2 US sooo MANY CHRISTMAS EVES. ***tears** annnd ***smiles*** — -Miss U –DADDY♥]

    • BoomerGal

      That is one adorable doggie!!

      • GreenLadyHere

        MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE BoomerGal♥. ***BIG HUG*** :>)

        —–***fist bump*** — – –4 WORDS: – –A-DOR-A -BLE!! — LOL

        U have a BLESSED CHRISTMAS. :>) —

    • Worldwatcher7

      Hey GLH:

      You ain’t never lied; FLOTUS knows good and well that Bo is her puppy. We are not fooled!

      Happy Christmas GLH!

      • GreenLadyHere

        MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE Worldwatcher7. ***BIG HUG** :>)

        — – -***fist bump*** :>) – – –Wishin’ U the BEST Ww7.♥ – –

        B BLESSED. :>)

    • nellcote

      Hilarious that Bo thinks he’s a lap dog.

  • GreenLadyHere
    • isonprize

      The BIG MAN!! Clarence Clemons with that “ho, ho, ho” is JUST TOO FUNNY!!!

      I forgot how much I missed him until this video. Thanks GLH!!

      • GreenLadyHere

        MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE -Isonprize — -LOL – –I KNOW -HUH! :>). —[THIS went 2 – -“Im a Lonely Frog.]

        My pleasure. :>)

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia – – –<b<RATS< – — -SHIP – – –

    – – – –Ron Paul breaks with NRA on armed guards in nation’s schools – —

    – – – -<i>Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) rejected a call from the National Rifle Association to put armed guards in schools on Monday, saying in a statement on his website that “government security is just another kind of violence.”

    “Do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, metal detectors, X-ray scanners, and warrantless physical searches?” Paul wrote.

    “We see this culture in our airports: witness the shabby spectacle of once proud, happy Americans shuffling through long lines while uniformed TSA agents bark orders. This is the world of government provided ‘security,’ a world far too many Americans now seem to accept or even endorse. School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America.”

    Paul, who is retiring at the end of the month, is the first Republican to publicly rebuke the NRA after the group’s CEO, Wayne LaPierre, gave a controversial press conference last week in which he not only rebuffed calls for more gun restrictions, but pushed for armed guards in schools as a way to prevent future massacres. –[The FIRST???] —

    Bu -BYEEEEE!!

  • GreenLadyHere

    Sepia — –OMG! – – – -HOW SAD. – – — — NRA!!!!!! – — WHA!???? — –

    – – – –Firefighters Shot While Battling Christmas Eve Blaze — –

    —- –At least 4 volunteer firefighters were shot, and two reportedly killed, while responding to a house fire in Webster, New York early Monday morning.

    As first responders moved in to battle the blaze, a gunman who is still at large opened fire, prompting officials to evacuate the entire scene while the flames enveloped the house and spread to neighboring residences. A SWAT team was called to the scene to investigate. At least three houses are reported to have burned down.

    Last week, National Rifle Association vice president Wayne LaPierre’s asserted that the only way to stop gun violence is to arm potential victims. But this incident is a sad reminder that sometimes even first responders are unable to protect themselves against gun violence while in the line of duty.

    The New York Daily News reports the gunman has died of a gunshot wound.


    • GN

      What a truly evil, evil act. I hope that the media focuses almost solely upon the victims and gives whatever depraved loon did this none of the attention he clearly was seeking.

      • GreenLadyHere


        — -**fist bump*** FOCUS n the VICTIMS!! SADLY.

        -EVILE/VILE – –DESPICABLE!! — –

        Is the NRA gon go into –SILENT MODE –OUTTA RESPECT 4 da VICTIMS??? — BULL-EXCREMENT!!

        Good 2 C U GN. :>) – –

    • Alma98
      • GreenLadyHere

        MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE Alma98.♥ – –***BIG HUG*** :>)

        YES! – -SADLY! – -He allegedly dies of a self-inflicted gunshot. — -O_O — –

        Waitin’ 4 a – –RESPONSE from the –B**TURD nra.!! — arrrggg! – –

        Good 2 C U ALMA. B BLESSED.:>) – – –

        • Alma98

          Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones GLH be blessed. It’s sad that a lot of families will be grieving during holidays because of fools like this man.

    • Admiral_Komack

      Where the NRA at?
      I guess the firefighters have to be packing now?

  • crazycanuck


    I would like to give a glass of wine to the mods on this site for keeping such a great site running. You guys are great! I’ll add some non-alcoholic wine for those who don’t drink

    • Alma98

      Merry Christmas cc and ditto on the mods here.

      • Worldwatcher7

        Double ditto!

    • GreenLadyHere

      MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE crazycanuck. ***BIG HUG** :>)

      – -***fist bump annnd joinin’ U*** — – –>
      – –CHEERS 2 the MODERATORS♥. :> BLESS U♥. :>))

      Good 2 C U cc. :>)–

    • dannie22

      hey cc! yes big ups to the mods of this site!

    • GN

      *yells bravo at the POU mods, throws roses onto the stage*

  • Alma98

    Can you name the song Fantasia sampled in her new song?

    • Alexander2

      Commodores — Night Shift?

      • Alma98

        That’s it! You and isontheprize are gonna have to duke it out for the prize, a peach cobbler. lol

        • isonprize

          I’m a lover not a fighter!! But peach cobbler?? Hmmmm, I may have to reconsider… LOLOLOLOL

          • Alma98


    • isonprize

      Night Shift. Commodores

      • Alma98

        You and Alexander got it at the same time.

  • nathkatun7

    Thank you Sepia for the the history treat on Black Madonna and Child. I missed the conversation that inspired it because sometimes I have difficulty logging to this site.

  • TyrenM

    Thanks. Looking forward to this all week. I have The African Presence in Europe. Imma have to add The History of Black Virgin Marys to my library.

    Merry Christmas to the whole POU family.

    • Alma98

      Merry Christmas TyrenM and have wonderful New Year.

  • Alma98

    Merry Christmas POU family & lurkers!!

  • Jojo Rock

    why u follow religion , oh fools need such, you all bunch of cows, n milk n honey for them, get self a real life,,